EP 346: Finding The Right Blend With Financial Behaviorist Jacquette Timmons

Jul 13, 2021 | Podcast, Productivity, Time Management

Tara McMullin is a writer, podcaster, and producer who explores what it takes to navigate the 21st-century economy with your humanity intact. Click here to support this work.

In This Episode:

  • Why financial behaviorist Jacquette Timmons is more interested in finding the right blend that finding a balance between work and life
  • How she approaches the way she engages with work to stave off burnout
  • Why rest is part of the work she does
  • How the structure of a business contributes to whether we’re able to find the right blend for ourselves

Reminder, this month, Tara is taking a break from hosting and handing the mic over to her husband & business partner, Sean McMullin:

I have a confession, dear listener.

I was once late to the start of a group coaching call because I was… taking a nap.

Through some combination of oversight and calendar failure, I missed that I had a call that I needed to be on until Tara woke me up!

So embarrassing.

And while I’m committed to making sure that never happens again, I’m equally committed to continuing to take naps in the middle of the day. Taking a nap in the middle of the day is one thing I’ve done to find the right blend of work, rest, and recharging that works for me.

It’s a small way that I take a break almost every day.

At different times in my journey with YellowHouse.Media, I’ve been overwhelmed and overworked. It felt like there were never enough hours in the day or days in the week. And that is not okay with me.

So I started to make changes. I changed the time I got started in the morning, I changed the project management tool we use, and I changed how I interacted with clients.

Soon enough, I wasn’t just feeling less overwhelmed and overworked. I had time for a nap! I also had time to take breaks periodically throughout the day to work on my art.

Solid systems, strong client relationships, naps, and art is the perfect blend for my day.

You probably have your own ideal blend for how you spend your time—whether working or otherwise. Maybe you save working on your big projects until after 10pm. Maybe you take 1 week off per quarter. Maybe you don’t schedule calls on Mondays or Tuesdays.

And if you don’t have found the right blend for you yet, now is the perfect time to think about what it might be and start experimenting you way to it.

Today, I have a conversation with one of my oldest business friends for you on exactly this subject.

Jacquette Timmons is speaker, coach, and financial behaviorist who helps people make human choices with their money.

I wanted to find out what taking a break and taking care of herself meant to her. And eventually the conversation got to this topic of finding the right blend—so that whether you’re working, resting, exercising, eating, or exploring your other interests, you feel satisfied and fulfilled with the way you’re spending your time.

Now, let’s find out what works for Jacquette Timmons!

Sean McMullin: Dear listener, I have a confession. I was once late to the start of a group coaching call because I was taking a nap. Through some combination of oversights and calendar failure, I missed that. I had a call that I needed to be on until Tara woke me up. So embarrassing. And while I'm committed to making sure that never happens again, I'm equally committed to continuing to take naps in the middle of the day. Taking a nap in the middle of the day is one thing I've done to find the right blend of work, rest, and recharging.

That happens to work for me. It's a small way that I take a break almost every day. I'm Sean McMullin, And this is What Works, the show that explores how small business owners are building bigger businesses without the shoulds and the supposed to's. At different times in my journey with Yellow House Media, I've been overwhelmed and overworked. It has felt like there were never enough hours in the day or days in the week. That is not okay with me. So I started making changes. I changed the time I got started in the morning.

I changed the project management tool we use, and I changed how I interacted with clients. Soon enough, I wasn't just feeling less overwhelmed and overworked, I had more time to take naps. I also had time to take breaks periodically through the day to take a walk and work on my art. Solid systems, strong client relationships, naps, and art is the perfect blend for my day. You probably have your own ideal blend of how you spend your time, whether working or otherwise. Maybe you save working on your big projects until 10:00 PM.

Maybe you take one week off per quarter. Maybe you don't schedule calls on Mondays or Tuesdays or Fridays or Saturdays. And if you haven't found the right blend for you yet, now is the perfect time to think about what it might be and start experimenting for yourself. Today, I present to you a conversation with one of my oldest business friends on exactly this subject. Jacquette Timmons is a speaker, coach, and financial behaviorist who helps people make human choices with their money.

I wanted to find out what taking a break and taking care of herself meant to Jacquette, And eventually the conversation got to this topic of finding the right blend. So that whether you're working, resting, exercise, eating, or exploring other interests, you feel satisfied and fulfilled with the way you're spending your time. Now let's find out what works for Jacquette Timmons. Jacquette Timmons, welcome to What Works. Thanks.

Jacquette Timmons: Thank you so much, Sean McMullin.

Sean McMullin: Really good to see you.

Jacquette Timmons: It's wonderful to see you too.

Sean McMullin: When we were planning to have me do this little takeover, this guest-host takeover, you were the first person that came onto my list.

Jacquette Timmons: Delights me to no end. Yay! I'm so excited.

Sean McMullin: For those of you who don't already know, the theme this month on What Works is taking a break. That is actually why I'm even here because Tara is taking a break. I can't remember if it was her idea or if it was my idea, or if it was a sort of a collective consensus. I'm not 100% certain, but we decided that I would be a guest host for the month. And so here we are talking about taking a break while Tara's not here.

Jacquette Timmons: Taking a break break.

Sean McMullin: Taking a break. Exactly.

Jacquette Timmons: How meta is that?

Sean McMullin: Right. She's embodying the theme. Jacquette, I'm a big fan of what I call and I'm sure other people call defining terms, because I feel like we get into a lot of confusion where we don't define our terms and everyone thinks that they're talking about the same thing, but they're not really talking about the same thing because they have a different understanding of something. So with that said, I would like to know what taking a break means to you, because I'm certain that taking a break means different things to different people.

I would like to know what your understanding of taking a break is and how you personally take a break.

Jacquette Timmons: So for me, taking a break really embodies the word break. In my particular case, it means not working. It means taking a break from work, and the form of that break can mean any number of things. But because I am also trying to be really intentional about how much of my day, my week, weekends are spent working, I'm really focused on making sure that I'm giving myself those permissions to pause, to take a break and not just be so work-oriented, if that makes sense. So for me right now... And I think this is the other thing, right?

I think how you define it could perhaps be fluid and depend upon where you are in your life, in your business and what you need or want in that particular time. So for me right now, what I occupy that time with can be any number of things, but the point of taking a break for me is to not work.

Sean McMullin: Right. I would imagine that there are times... There are micro breaks. There are breaks during the day, there are breaks during the week, and then there are breaks, vacations.

Jacquette Timmons: Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, I think how that time is filled up can be different. Taking a break during a workday could be pausing and deciding, okay, I'm going to eat lunch. And while I'm eating lunch, I'm going to do A, B, C, and D, and then I'll get back to work. That could be taking a break. It could also be, I am going to go away for the weekend. That's taking a break. So it could be any number of things.

Sean McMullin: Do you approach it with contention? I mean, is this something that you plan for? Do you have set breaks plans daily, weekly, monthly, annually? Do you intentionally plan for taking a break?

Jacquette Timmons: Intentionally plan for some breaks. I intentionally look at my calendar to see, what speaking engagements do I have coming up? How much prep work do I have to do? Where am I on my schedule of brainstorming, writing, and publishing my weekly content and therefore also my podcasts so that I can see, for example, where can I take a break on a weekend. There's that level of planning. And then if I'm going to go away, there's making sure that I've planned so that I am not when I come back from that crushed by the things that I didn't do that I needed to do beforehand.

There's planning like zooming out and looking at a month and just being really clear about, okay, this is what's on deck. This is where I know I have some flexibility. And then there's also a little bit longer planning in terms of like, as you mentioned, vacations, even if that vacation is just getting away for the weekend.

Sean McMullin: Another thing that I wanted to ask you along these lines is it seems kind of common that when we're talking about taking a break, the term self-care comes up when we're talking about taking a break. Self-care is another thing that I feel like a lot of people define that differently, and it might be a term that can cause some confusion, depending upon who you're talking to. Same question. How do you define self-care, and what does self-care mean for you? And additionally, how does taking a break and self-care meet for you?

Jacquette Timmons: I think there they are definitely intertwined. I think, especially when you are intentional about taking a break, that that is a form of self-care because you're thinking about it in advance. I would say that they are intertwined. I would say that when it comes to the self-care piece though, that a good piece of it is being focused on things that one might say, "Oh, that's so obvious," but I think it bears keeping in mind the whole notion of eating well, right? The whole notion of exercising. For me, it's all of those things and meditating and journaling.

One of the things I recently realized is it takes me about two hours to get my day started, but it's not because I'm like getting up late in the day. But when I think about, okay, I'm going for a run, I'm coming back, I'm showering, I'm having breakfast, I'm having my quiet time, which for me is meditating and journaling, that's two hours. To somebody else, they may not think that that's self-care. But to me, that is self-care.

But recognizing that, oh, that's one of the reasons why under as many instances as possible, I don't schedule anything before 11:00 because I want that morning time, and I want to be able to have that time not be rushed. Now, obviously, I can't always control that, but nine times out of 10, I can. That's why someone can't book a call on my calendar before 11:00 AM, because I spend my time taking care of myself in those ways so that I can be ready for the day.

This reminds me of a quote that I once heard Susan Taylor say, and I heard this at a conference at which she was speaking, and this is going back many, many, many years, but she said, "Give yourself to yourself before you give yourself away." And to me, even if I'm not as "disciplined" about taking breaks in terms of pausing from work, I am absolutely disciplined about taking those breaks, to get my exercise in, to eat as healthy as one can, and to have my quiet time.

Sean McMullin: Does the term boundaries resonate with you? I mean, that's what a lot of people would call work-life balance. They call them boundaries. Is that something that resonates with you personally?

Jacquette Timmons: The word balance resonates with me. The word balance is not. Because I feel like whether we mean it or not, I think when we use the word balance, there's an implication that we're looking for this certain percentage and that that percentage is static. And for me, I think I prefer the term blend, which kind of from my perspective helps to just understand that it's fluid. It might be 80/20 today, but tomorrow it might be 60/40, or it might be 70/30. And any of those are good.

Sean McMullin: I would imagine it takes a certain amount of self-awareness to be able to identify that, right?

Jacquette Timmons: Yeah, it does. And self-awareness, and then I also think grace and self-compassion, right? If you're working on a deadline, you may not have the ability to have everything be, as perfectly balanced and aligned as you would like it. But you also know that that's really only temporary, right? It's until you get through that particular crunch in time, and then you can go back to things being the way that you ideally want it to be. Does that answer your question?

Sean McMullin: Well, you brought up some interesting... I think yes, but I think you also brought up some interesting points, the ways that taking a break. It sounds like the way that you've structured your days and putting these boundaries in place, when you do have to work past when you would ideally want to, when you do have to work the longer days, when you do have to work through the weekends, when you have to do these things, it's nice to know that that will change, that that's a temporary state.

Jacquette Timmons: Exactly.

Sean McMullin: I would imagine that you would be less prepared for that work if you hadn't given yourself the time to take a rest, to take a break.

Jacquette Timmons: Mm-hmm (affirmative). It's really interesting too because I think you were mentioning at the top and you said even elsewhere the importance of being clear about how we are defining taking a break and how we are defining self-care. I think another thing that we need to... How do I want to put it? Let me share this example and maybe this will help to clarify what I'm trying to say. People will often say to me, "Oh, you're so busy."

One of the reasons I have a reaction to that is because if I'm preparing for a presentation, a part of that preparation is actually resting, resting my body, resting my voice. I don't look at that as being busy. But because I'm not available to someone, they look at that as being busy. I find that interesting. I find the definition of busy typically being around that you're doing something that's all consuming.

Sometimes I'm not available to you because literally I am resting my body and I am resting my voice so that I can be able to give 110% when I have that presentation in two days.

Sean McMullin: I really admire your ability to establish that and, for lack of a better word, defend that. I know that that's something that I would like to work on is that when I look at my calendar and I see empty space, well, of course, I'm available. There's nothing on my calendar. But again, this goes back to some of your self-awareness and how you intentionally approach these things is you know what that empty space means to you. It's not actually empty space.

Jacquette Timmons: Exactly. Exactly.

Sean McMullin: I know that we've had conversations that are parallel to this before. How do people respond? I mean, I know that you've had some mixed responses where you have said no to people when you are defending that time.

Jacquette Timmons: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sean McMullin: Do you find that you have to explain yourself, or do most people understand? What's the response?

Jacquette Timmons: That's a really good question. I think some people understand. I think others, it completely goes over their head. I've gotten to the point where for the folks for whom it goes completely over their head, I don't mean this in a... Is the word pejoratory way? I don't know what the word is. I dismiss them.

Sean McMullin: That's fabulous.

Jacquette Timmons: I guess it's not that I dismiss them, I dismiss their reaction. If I have to explain it to you in great detail, I feel like that's not a really good use of my time and energy. What else can I say? If you don't get it, you don't get it and that's okay. But I'm not going to have you make me feel bad about having those boundaries to take care of myself.

Sean McMullin: Yeah, I love that. One of the things that is this all sort of... There's something sort of metaphorical about all of us this well. What are your thoughts about this? We create this time to take a break so that we are recharging ourselves, so we're making that time so we can show up 110%. When we are taking this break, this is us preparing. This is part of working on getting ready for that presentation. So that when we do show up, we show up fully. It's interesting to me also.

I'm thinking about this from a business perspective. That also means your business can show up fully.

Jacquette Timmons: Yes.

Sean McMullin: That if you're not always on your businesses and always working... Do you know what I'm getting at?

Jacquette Timmons: I do. I totally do. Totally do. Yeah, absolutely. What I hear you saying is that when you have some boundaries around your business, you can show up even more for the business that you do.

Sean McMullin: Yeah. Sure, I have time to take on another client, but my other clients won't get as much of me.

Jacquette Timmons: Exactly. Exactly. To continue with that thread, I think that that is one of the reasons why thinking about what your business model is and your sales process and your pricing strategy, and whether all of that collectively gives you the space to be able to service your clients the way that you want to service them. Because if you want to have a really high touch...

If you want to provide a really high touch experience, well, then that means that you need to perhaps work with fewer clients, which then means you need to price in such a way that you've got cashflow to not only help you on a short-term basis, but also on a long-term basis. You don't want to be in a position where you're always prospecting. You also don't want to be in a position where you'd let your pipeline get dry and you don't have any new business to potentially pull from.

It's an interesting balancing act, but I think it's one that like a seesaw, you can be in the middle and your business model and your sales process and your pricing can help you with how it tethers to the left or the right.

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What was the word you used earlier in place of balance? What was that word?

Jacquette Timmons: Oh, blend.

Sean McMullin: Does that apply to work in this regard as well?

Jacquette Timmons: I think so. I think also one of the other reasons why I perhaps like the word blend is when I think back and lean into my former days of working as a money manager and you'd have to think about things from a portfolio perspective, and you'd have to think about if I add this asset, what impact is it going to have on the portfolio? If I take away this asset, what impact is that going to have? I think all of that is about blending, right? It's like putting together a recipe.

Sean McMullin: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah?

Jacquette Timmons: Right? And one ingredient added or taken away can have a huge impact on what the end result ends up tasting like.

Sean McMullin: I was just thinking about pasta sauce, the way that it can be... All that tomato acid can just be so bitter, and then you add a little bit of sugar and suddenly it's not necessarily sweet, but it's certainly less... That's a good blend, mix.

Jacquette Timmons: Yes. We'll just keep going the metaphor.

Sean McMullin: Oh yeah, mixology. There's some like business shaky shake cocktail business metaphors going on here.

Jacquette Timmons: Oh my gosh.

Sean McMullin: I am curious where you are currently with creating time to take a break, establish boundaries, making sure this self-awareness that you have that allows you to do these things. I can't imagine you've always had this. I mean, were you one of those people who just like, "My mother gave it to me and I'm on it?" No, you're making the face like no. No, definitely not.

Jacquette Timmons: No, not at all.

Sean McMullin: I'm curious. Can you even define... For me, there's oftentimes like a moment where I can say, "Oh, that was the moment that I got it. That was the moment when I figured it." Do you have that moment for yourself?

Jacquette Timmons: I have a big moment, and then I have I think a few mini moments, if you will.

Sean McMullin: Yeah, I'd love it.

Jacquette Timmons: For those that don't know, the pillars of my business are one-on-one coaching, I'm a for hire speaker, and then I host events. For many years, I've had the discipline and the practice of allocating certain days for certain activities. So for the most part, coaching has always been... Well, I shouldn't say always. But for a very long time, coaching has been Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. And that was to get out of the habit of having coaching calls every single day all times of the day. So that was one thing that I did.

I switched to having that kind of a schedule. Sometimes it gets tweaked because of speaking engagements. One of the big moments in terms of the ahas came in 2018 when I was doing a multi-city tour for two different organizations, a law firm and a Fortune 100 company. I was on the road every week from September 18th through the first week in December, and I had 10 days off and those 10 days were not consecutive. And in the midst of all of this, I'm still doing coaching.

Sean McMullin: Oh no!

Jacquette Timmons: Never Thursdays though, because Thursdays were typically a travel day. I would typically leave New York on Wednesday, speak on Thursday, and come back on Friday, or sometimes it was some other variation. But I would still have coaching on Monday and Tuesday. I remember on one of these trips just getting to the point where I was just completely exhausted, and I made a comment to a friend and I said to him, I was like, "I got to figure out how I'm going to be able to do these coaching calls." And he was like, "Why are you trying to figure out how to do more?"

I looked at him. I was like, "What are you talking about?" He's like, "Why are you not trying to figure out how to do less?" And that was like a huge moment for me from the standpoint of oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Instead of always trying to figure out how I can add, think critically about what I can take away. And from that critical thought, I actually revamped my coaching offers. I took away that one coaching offer that got me to the point where I was asking that question.

Because what I realized was that it took me just as much time to prep for this one particular offer as it did for my longer engagements which actually paid me more. It was like, why are you spending equal amount of times preparing for something that doesn't have the same return on investment? So that was one thing that I came to in terms of thinking about how to adjust my schedule to provide more by doing less. And then the other thing I did is I live in Brooklyn and I used for a really long time a shared office space in the city.

And from a mailing address perspective, I still do. But the other thing that I did is whenever I would go into the city, for those that don't know, meaning Manhattan, I would batch meetings. If I couldn't do it, I would look to schedule that appointment then on another day when I could. I would get pushback on that as well, because someone would be like, "Oh, let's meet in the city for coffee." And if I didn't have anything else on that day, I'm like, "No, I'm not doing that," and they couldn't understand why.

And I'm like, "Yeah, but see, you don't understand. No matter where I go, it is at least a half an hour, 45 minutes for me to get to you. And that's just one direction. So that's 90 minutes round trip, plus the time that I'm spending with you, whatever amount of time that is. So it's not just coffee for me."

Sean McMullin: Right.

Jacquette Timmons: Right? I really need to make sure not to sound crass about it, but that it's worth my time to come into the city for a coffee. I don't mind doing that if it's in the mix of everything else. And clearly if it's a client or a prospective client and it's a law firm or a large corporation, that's a different story. But for somebody that's just like, "Oh, let's catch up. Let's have coffee," no, I'm not doing it.

Sean McMullin: Well, immediately it makes me think of this metaphor we were talking about earlier of the blending of food and that balance of the teeter-totter, right? I think that we just have a sense of when something, to your words and I understand why you use those words, worth our time. The metaphor that I'm going with is, that coffee date is sweet, but man, does that commute suck. That is so bitter. And what's happened is you have a pasta sauce that no one wants to eat.

Jacquette Timmons: Right. Exactly. Exactly. I'm like, I don't see anybody offering to come to Brooklyn, so let's be clear.

Sean McMullin: Right. The flip side of that is you've got like maybe some sort of like big potential meeting and it is so sweet that it's worth the bitterness of the trip.

Jacquette Timmons: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Sean McMullin: Right.

Jacquette Timmons: You don't even taste the bitterness, right? Because whatever comes of it, whether it's a prospect or if it's a client and you're doing an update or whatever, whatever comes of that meeting the inconvenience of getting on a hot New York City subway is minimal in the context of the bigger picture. Since we're talking about schedule, the other time that I had to be really clear about it was when I was working on my book. I got my book deal in 2007. It was to be delivered in the fall of 2008.

Every day I was at the little coffee shop where I wrote it, and I would write from 6:00 to 11:00 almost every night. The only time that I would have social time would be Friday night. But again, I knew it was a short-term sacrifice that I was making in terms of being social and doing other things so that I could deliver a good product to my publisher.

Sean McMullin: Sure. All of this also just makes me think about, again, back to self-awareness and of your own needs. These pros and cons, these weighing the good with the bad and whether or not it actually is worth your time, you still have to have willingness and the ability to stand up for yourself. This might be worth it for you, but I'm not doing this for you.

Jacquette Timmons: I'm not going to sit here and lie and say that sometimes some of those conversations were uncomfortable, because people are judging you and that can be a little weird to have some people look at you and say, "What is the big deal? Why won't you come into the city?" It's not necessarily comfortable, but yet at the same time, I'm hoping that whether they recognize it in that moment or at a later point in time that they will see, "Oh, maybe I need to start practicing some boundaries too."

Sean McMullin: Perhaps you're doing them a favor.

Jacquette Timmons: Right, exactly, without them even knowing it.

Sean McMullin: You're modeling something that perhaps they should consider.

Jacquette Timmons: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. I think something else that we haven't talked about that probably is important here as well is when it comes to taking a break and self-care, I think a piece of that puzzle also is making sure that you're spending time with people that energize you.

Sean McMullin: As opposed to?

Jacquette Timmons: People that deplete you of energy and make you feel bad for the choices that you're making.

Sean McMullin: Yeah. That's another self-awareness thing, that you've got to have your own back. If you're in a situation and you're like, "Oh man, this is not making me feel good," and then you start arguing with yourself, "Well, why? This should be okay. Why?" But to trust that your feelings are right.

Jacquette Timmons: Yes.

Sean McMullin: Is that something that your mom gave you, or is that something you had to learn as well?

Jacquette Timmons: I think it's a combination actually. I think my mother gave it to me. I don't think I was always really good at the execution of it. I think my mother was definitely much better at the execution of it, not me. But I think some of that comes from growing up in a situation where... And on a number of different levels, I was the only and you wanted to fit in. All of those things come into play. My mother never had the need to fit in, and she did. She hid it from me.

She always had her own little thing, dance to her own little drum, and she was comfortable in her own skin in a way that I have grown into as I've gotten older. It wasn't like that always.

Sean McMullin: I think that that's one thing that I think you and I have always connected upon is we just have bad ass moms.

Jacquette Timmons: Yes! Yes, absolutely.

Sean McMullin: Not everyone has had the benefit of that, you know?

Jacquette Timmons: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And it is a blessing.

Sean McMullin: Indeed. I have one more question that I wanted to ask you to sort of wrap things up.

Jacquette Timmons: Sure.

Sean McMullin: We're talking about taking a break, rest, self-care. I'm curious, how you're seeing this playing out in the long-term? What parts of how you're currently operating today with these things do you plan on continuing to take into the future? Are there any parts of what you're currently doing that you plan on moving away from? I mean, we've talked about how you would approach these things with such intent, and I know that you financially approach things with such intent.

What are your plans with how these things are going to go, rest, self-care, taking a break? How does that play out for you?

Jacquette Timmons: I think the things remain the same. But as I think about hopefully being again in a relationship and having to make room for him, that that will change, right? Because when you are factoring in another person and you're factoring in at least how you spend your weekends, you got to factor in what they need too, right?

Sean McMullin: Sure.

Jacquette Timmons: I think it's going to be a recalibration that I don't yet know how it will play out, but I am keenly aware that I will have to do a little bit of recalibration.

Sean McMullin: The blend will be at different ratios.

Jacquette Timmons: Exactly. Yeah. But I think the things won't change because I think the things are really, really core and key to me being able to show up and be as healthy as possible.

Sean McMullin: I think you do have a really... There's another thing that I admire about you is that you have created a life surrounded by things that you actually love.

Jacquette Timmons: Yeah.

Sean McMullin: Can you even imagine being in a place where the opposite of taking a break is going to do something that you just despise? I can't even imagine. No, no, I can imagine.

Jacquette Timmons: I was about to say I can imagine, and I'm so grateful that I don't have to actually experience it. You know? I can imagine it. The road that that goes down I hope never comes to fruition.

Sean McMullin: You and me both.

Jacquette Timmons: I'm grateful that I don't have to, but I absolutely can imagine.

Sean McMullin: Oh yeah. Now that I'm talking about this, I'm like, yeah. This is one of those situations where Tara, if Tara were here right now, she's like, "Oh, Sean your privilege is hanging out all over the place right now." I'll be like, "Oh, you're right."

Jacquette Timmons: Exactly, for both of us. Definitely. Definitely. So yeah, I can imagine, but hope to never, ever have to exercise that path for sure.

Sean McMullin: Well, that's excellent. Well, I hope that you very shortly, very soon have to alter your recipe, as they say.

Jacquette Timmons: Well, thank you.

Sean McMullin: As we say anyway.

Jacquette Timmons: I know, right?

Sean McMullin: We just authored a thing.

Jacquette Timmons: We sure did.

Sean McMullin: Because I think this is what they do in podcast lands. Do you want to tell people where they can find you?

Jacquette Timmons: I would love to. Thank you so much. Come hang out with me on Instagram. I'm one of those crazy people that still enjoys Instagram. Come and hang out with me on Instagram. And if you want to do the financial wheel exercise, which will be a really good way of taking a look at your vision for your money and seeing to what extent it's helping you to take a break and take care of yourself, you can go to jacquettetimmons.com/wheel. And it's free.

Sean McMullin: Awesome.

Jacquette Timmons: Thank you, my dear.

Sean McMullin: Oh, it's so good talking to you. Thanks for doing this with me.

Jacquette Timmons: Oh, my pleasure. Thank you. It was such a delight.

Sean McMullin: Alrighty, dear listener. I have another confession for you. I didn't know that hustle culture even existed until I was in my late thirties. I was way too busy dumpster diving, knitting, fermenting vegetables, and playing in a noisy performance art band called Horse Flesh. Yes, Horse Flesh. And then when I did learn about hustle culture, I thought that it was absolutely crazy and not a type of crazy that I was interested participating in. Jacquette and I don't agree on everything business.

She works weekends, not this guy, but that doesn't change the fact that she is an inspiration to me on how to blend business with the rest of my world. And I'm quite pleased that we were able to share this conversation with you. Next week, I'm talking with cartoonist, educator, author, and founder of The Autonomous Creative, Jessica Abel. We're taking a bit of a different spin on the taking a break thing with this one.

I talk with Jessica about how she helps creatives make the space to take a break from the work that pays the bills to do the work that feeds their souls. In other words, how the heck do you find the time to get creative? It's a subject near and dear to my heart. What Works is produced by Yellow House Media. Our production coordinator is the fabulous Lou Blazer. Our production assistant is the bad-ass Emily Kilduff, and this episode was edited by the mysterious Marty Seefeldt.

What Works is recorded on the ancestral homeland of the Susquehannock and the Conestoga, and the Yellow House is located on the unseeded land of the Ktunaxa Nation.

What Works offers in-depth, well-researched content that strips away the hype of the 21st-century economy. Whether you love the podcast, the articles, or the Instagram content, we’d love your support